Monday, January 17, 2011

[Card Rulings] Scrap Orthros



Hi guys, finally done with my 2 week work camp, so shall be back to life again on the blog. Today, we shall discuss Scrap Orthros! With rulings taken from here, I shall just bring up a few key points.

Q:それぞれの効果はチェーンブロックを作りますか?
A:特殊召喚する効果にはチェーンブロックは作られません。
「スクラップ」を破壊する効果とサルベージする効果にはチェーンブロックが作られます。
Scrap Orthros special summon is a ruling effect and does not use chain block. (E.g. Cyber Dragon, so you can God Declaration it, but not DCK for its special summon effect) However, its destroying of Scrap and its salvage effect uses Chain Block

Q:デッキから墓地に直接送られたこのカードを、別のカードが持つ効果で墓地から特殊召喚できますか?
A:いいえ、できません。
If Scrap Orthros is sent directly from deck to grave, you cannot special summon it through other cards (E.g. Chimera / Monster Reborn) I am assuming you cannot special summon it directly from deck too (E.g. Summon Priest), making it similar to say Chaos Sorcerer. You can only revive it after you have successfully summoned it before

Q:スクラップを選択する及び破壊するのは対象を取る効果ですか?
また、いつ選択しますか?
A:対象を取る効果となり、効果発動時に選択します
Its salvage effect targets on activatation

Q:自身を破壊対象に選択することはできますか?
A:はい、できます。
Yes, you can choose to destroy Scrap Orthros itself using its effect, and yes, the effect would activate for salvage.

Q:選択したスクラップが裏側守備表示になった場合、破壊されますか?
A:いいえ、破壊されません。
If the monster you choose to destroy is turned face down (E.g. Book of Moon) the destruction of monster will be cancelled.

Q:選択したスクラップが《エネミーコントローラー》によって相手フィールドに移った場合、そのスクラップは破壊されますか?
A:いいえ、破壊されません。
If the monster you choose to destroy goes to opponent field (E.g. Enemy Controller) the destruction of monster will be cancelled.

Q:《スクラップ・シャーク》が存在する時にこのカードを特殊召喚し、自身を対象に効果を発動しました。この場合《スクラップ・シャーク》で墓地に落としたモンスターをサルベージできますか?
A:このカードの自壊処理後に《スクラップ・シャーク》の自壊効果が発動することになります。
つまり《スクラップ・シャーク》の墓地に送る効果とこのカードのサルベージ効果を発動するタイミングは同じになります。
そのため、どちらからチェーンしても、効果発動時にこのカードがサルベージ対象を選択するので、《スクラップ・シャーク》で効果解決時に墓地に送るカードをサルベージできません。
If Scrap Shark is on the field, and you summon Scrap Orthros, and choose to destroy Scrap Orthros itself, Shark's send to grave effect and Orthros salvage effect happens at the same time. However, since you have to first select Orthros's target to salvage, you will not be able to salvage whatever Shark will be sending to grave, simply cause it is not in the grave yet for you to target.

In conclusion:
You will probably still need to put at least 1 Beast in your deck, just to ensure you have a target that you can just throw to grave for easy revival through Chimera. However, Orthros is really strong, just cause it is a special summon. It also solves those situations when you begin the game with 0 tuners, and only draw them mid game. Put in Scrap Searcher in deck for cool stuff.

Sample Scenario that happened yesterday (Pls figure the sequence yourself, since its super easy):
Hand = Monster reborn, Scrap Orthros
Grave = Scrap Golem, Scrap Chimera
Outcome: Scrap Twin Dragon and Scrap Dragon on field.

Gonna test the deck for just abit more, and hopefully will have a decklist up soon~

15 comments:

  1. Orthoros is a good card cuz it collaborates well with Grannel.

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  2. Ehhh, it's worse that I thought. I thought that Scrap Orthros would be a nice addition to the Scrap deck, but it seems so inconsistent. I guess that it could still be a one-of that can be searched with Scrapyard.

    Maybe I'm underestimating it because the TCG doesn't have the Machine Emperors, but still, it seems almost as bad as Scrap Mind Reader.

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  3. Just so I can have a place to write out the sequence to figure it out and so others can see it:
    Reborn-->Golem
    Special Orthros-->kill itself, grab Chimera
    Normal Chimera-->special Orthros
    Synchro Scrap Dragon
    Golem SSes Orthros
    Synchro Scrap Twin Dragon
    Total card exchange, +0, turning reborn and Orthros into Scrap Twin and Scrap Dragon with viable targets in grave for revival

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  4. LightGrunty I think you should think about it again!

    You can practically recycle your Chimera and combined with Scrap Recycler you have more access to Naturia Beast!

    Of course I'm going to experiment with it first before I jump to any conclusions!

    I still have my doubts regarding the rulling about the summoning of Scrap Orthros since yugioh.wikia says "If you control a face-up "Scrap" monster, you can Special Summon this card from your hand."

    It doesn't say that you can't special summon him any other way!

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  5. @MaX

    You can recycle Chimera plenty of ways. Using Orthros is a fairly slow way of doing so, since you need a Scrap on the field already. It has only been effective because there has been a way to Special Summon another Scrap before using the Orthros to recycle Chimera or something.

    Scrap Beast can already be tuned to Scrap Searcher for Naturia Beast. Scapegoat seems to work better for that purpose, though.

    As for the Special Summon ruling, it is consistent with D.D. Unicorn Knight and Dragon Queen of Tragic Endings, but the wording is slightly off amongst the three. Apparently there's no official ruling yet, so I wouldn't know what to do with that...

    Either way, I just seen Scrap Orthros as being too inconsistent. I suppose that it adds speed to the deck, but it's heavily combo-oriented, like Scrap Mind Reader and Scrap Searcher.

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  6. @LightGrunty It's actually pretty consistent, considering how the bosses will also revive an underling when they perish. And of course play it together with Searcher for good results

    Well, will test abit more and up a decklist soon. Then u guys could probably test it out before deciding? It's up to individual playstyle anyway

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  7. @DSummon

    I just really hate dead draws, so I don't play Scrap Searcher or other combo-oriented cards.

    Generally, drawing into Searcher means that you have to waste a turn Setting it and letting it die. I see that with Orthros, though, it becomes a little more useful.

    I'm just questioning the effectiveness of Orthros because I haven't seen in in action against a more defensive deck. I saw your videos with it against the Fabled deck, but that deck has practically no defense at all. I would assume that some disruption could easily make Orthros a dead card. If testing proves otherwise, then I'll have to get some copies of Scrap Orthros when (if...) they come to the TCG.

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  8. Seriously, this Ruling must be a joke, because it doesn't state it on the card. o_______O

    Scrap Orthros:
    自分フィールド上に「スクラップ」と名のついたモンスターが表側表示で存在する場合、このカードを手札から特殊召喚する事ができる

    ができる。 <-- This means "can" and therefore it CAN be special summoned. It's that what makes it NON-Nomi.

    True Six Samurai - Kizan:
    自分フィールド上に「真六武衆-キザン」以外の「六武衆」と名のついたモンスターが表側表示で存在する場合、このカードは手札から特殊召喚する事ができる

    See? Kizan has the same at the end and means can. If it was a Semi-Nomi it should look like this:

    Chaos Sorcerer:
    自分の墓地の光属性と闇属性モンスターを1体ずつゲームから除外して特殊召喚する

    する。 <--- here we have a "to" at the end, which means, you have to use this to Special Summon him.

    Therefore, this should not be. It's like saying Kizan has to be Special Summoned properly before he can be Special Summoned through a other effect. Oh, lets nerf Wulf, Kizan and Grandmaster. Seriously, sometimes I like the TCG more than the OCG.

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  9. @LightGrunty As said, it is up to your own playstyle. Either way, Scrap is actually a pretty combo based deck imo.

    @Anoymous Yes, I think the same too, but either way Scrap Orthros is not posted on Konami's official FAQ site yet, so will have to wait and see.

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  10. @Anonymous

    You overlooked every other part of the text. Lots of cards' effects end with できる (can).

    Part of Special Summon-only Monsters or Nomi Monsters is the "このカードは通常召喚できない" (This card cannot be Normal Summoned [or Set]) phrase, which Scrap Orthros has. Kizan lacks that phrase entirely, and Wulf is like Rare Metal Dragon; completely different.

    Moreover, you should compare cards with similar conditions. Scrap Orthros checks for cards on the field, while Chaos Sorcerer removes cards in the Graveyard. That's why I used D.D. Unicorn Knight and Dragon Queen of Tragic Endings for my comparisons, as opposed to Chaos Sorcerer or Gigastone Omega.

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  11. @LightGrunty
    Yeah, you have given me a very good example (D.D. Unicorn Knight) to prove my point. I've compared again both text boxes and I've found one very important difference that says only:

    Scrap Orthros:
    自分フィールド上に「スクラップ」と名のついたモンスターが表側表示で存在する場合、このカードを手札から特殊召喚する事ができる

    このカードを this in combination with this ができる means "This card can"

    D.D. Unicorn Knight:
    このカードは相手フィールド上にモンスターが存在し、自分フィールド上にチューナーが表側表示で存在する場合に特殊召喚する事ができる

    このカードは this here plus this ができる means "This card can only". The difference is in the first part the last character which makes it in newer effect texts an only monster.

    Do you see what I mean? This clearly differs a semi-nomi from a non-nomi monster.

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  12. The particle は doesn't have any implication of meaning "only." Note that Kizan also uses the は particle:

    自分フィールド上に「真六武衆-キザン」以外の「六武衆」と名のついたモンスターが表側表示で存在する場合、このカードは手札から特殊召喚する事ができる。

    The difference in the particle is due solely to the sentence structure.

    Also note that Special Summon-only Monsters do not necessarily use the same sentence structure as each other, leading to inconsistencies. This is why this would be difficult to rule.

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  13. Yeah, after I've written the comment, I've seen that, too -.-".

    So, we can only wait, until Konami rules and until then we can only rely on the stuff, japanese readers tells us.

    Ah, btw. the new Machine Divine Emporer Dragon Asterisk is a Non-Nomi Monster but has a different Kanji as D.D. Unicorn Knight and Scrap Orthros. Confusing.

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  14. @Anonymous

    I had a feeling that you couldn't completely read Japanese...

    I would assume that Asterisk is going to be a Special Summon-only Monster, but its wording is even more inconsistent than Scrap Orthros.

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  15. @LightGrunty

    I can't read japanese at all :D
    The only Kanji I can read is stuff like Tuner etc., the Types and such stuff like Doragon. I'll try it with logicaly thinking and comparing with other cards and that's the reason why I'm stuck with this cards. But yeah, I'll try it further, so I can read at least a little Yugioh japanese ;)

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