Thursday, September 8, 2011

Cyber-Stein vs Agent of Creation - Venus

Decided to do a post comparing the old and new 'pay life to special summon' monsters.

Call any fusion monster you want including huge beatsticks
Generic so no specific deck required to play it

No further continuation for combos after you have used its effect
Pay 5k LP so only usable once
Searchable only by Sangan and Killer Tomato (Excluding any other obsecure method which nobody uses, Tomato actually almost included as one of them)
Large amount of lifepoints paid also means any card used to destroy the summoned monster / counter its effect such as Veiler makes this card totally useless
And of course once the monster is summoned, Stein on its own is completely useless due to lack of size to even be much of a threat to opponent lifepoints

Agent of Creation - Venus
Only pay 500LP so usable multiple times even if negated
Searchable via Agent of Mystery - Earth which can be run in 3
1600 attack lets it serve as a relatively ok sized beatstick even without Gachi Gachi
Can be discarded from hand together with any of the Heralds to counter cards
Can be protected from hand through Honest
Sets up the field for synchro / exceed together with Earth itself, effectively making summoning Trishula and Black Rose and other cards which earns even more card advantage while only using effectivly 1 card to summon everything
Sets up the grave by filling it with light monsters for summoning Krystia and bullets for Hyperion
Can be removed from hand/field/grave to special summon even more awesome boss monsters

Having to build a deck around it (aka 3 Yellow skins in deck)
At the moment limited to mainly summoning Gachi Gachi / Daigusta Phoenix on its own. Summoning anything else requires an additional Earth / Striker though easy to achieve

Both Stein and Venus create an OTK by paying lifepoints and using an extra equipment card assuming all the monsters hit through, though abit easier for Stein simply because of size of monsters. (Stein can summon Cyber Twin/End, equip Megamorph for win, Venus can summon 3 Shine Balls, Exceed Daigusta, equip Power of Unity for win)

Looking at the similar win conditions, Venus looks to have so many advantages over Stein. Even though Stein can summon alot more different monsters on its own, none of the fusion monsters actually generate card advantage. Plus with the major amount of lifepoints used for the combo, Stein users can only aim to go for an OTK where summoning anything like Extrio at the cost of 5k LP to control is stupid. Furthermore Stein was only strong in an era where a Hurricane or Storm was fatal. With the current decks with cards such as Veiler/Orange Light/Gorz/Tragodia/Battle Fader among some of the more common cards that easily stop an OTK, Stein is no longer as easy to use as before. Furthermore, if you pay 5k and fail to make a kill, insert BLS/Judgement/whatever awesome boss monster there is among all the decks available now and say good bye to not just your monsters but your remainder lifepoints as well.

In comparison, Venus players may be abit more restricted in what they can summon and the deck plays around Venus and the Shine Balls. However, in return, they also gain access to extra boss monsters such as Krystia and Hyperion as well. Also, Venus players get to choose between going for control / otk / gaining card or field advantage depending on the hand that they have and the current situation.

To end off my rant, ban Venus and reinstate Stein! Seriously no matter what reasons you can give, none of them can somehow make Stein look more overpowered then Venus. I welcome anyone to try.


  1. Uuh Cyber Stein enables a 2 card OTK Stein + mrgamorph = game. Also konami loves synchros and hates fusions. Synchros sell packs, fusions (except for Ehero) don't. When you venus on the field, you cling to your in hand veiler for that trishie/BRF that is coming. Easily counterable with veiler.

  2. And Stein isnt similarly counterd with Veiler? Also Venus doesnt enable the exact same 2 card OTK?

  3. Cyber-Stein can win with only one attack. Both OKTs are so similar, but Cyber-Stein is more dangerous than Venus, because he summons Cyber End Dragon or Master of Oz... only one attack is the difference. However... both cards must be in the same condition, limited, semi-limited, released or forbidden.

    Antonio from

  4. It will take 6 months before any Agent based card get's hit,

    unless we see an emergency ban which only happened once back then in TCG, on the exact same card in this topic, they emergency banned cyber-stein during december,

    the most I guess they can do is either limit hyperion and limit venus and limit Kristya thus weakening the Agent Angel deck ^^

  5. Yeah, Venus sets up a lot more plays compared to Stein. In that regard, maybe Venus is much more powerful.

    However, Stein is generic. Just putting Stein in any deck with Sangan can give that deck another OTK move. While Venus can only be used in an Agent deck.

    They should just do something about Venus or the Shine Balls. Though it is unlikely since it looks like Konami doesnt touch Structure Deck themes starting from SD18

  6. Venus is the most broken card in the Agent Deck. Bann or even Limit it and Agents will go down to Tier2.

  7. Without Venus the Deck isnt broken anymore...

  8. Baha i hope you were a lil high when you wrote this article.
    Stein is a win condition by itself. Leave fader, veiler etc alone for a moment and think again "Stein is a win condition by itself".
    Venus summon 3 yellow monster. Maybe you forgot a shonen final match won 2-0 in 3 minutes thanks to stein.

  9. cyber stein was an iffy card since the beginning broken but before people just set it anyways and lost games due to it
    veiler is cyber steins worst enemy don't use stein no more
    venus is really different from stein they both make the game fast but it's just different uses i guess idk this doesn't make much sense u really can't compare these two they are just on different levels one is used to otk one is for presence and control
    interms of stats venus all the way or maybe stein who knows let them slug it out

  10. Why Wouldnt They Just Ban Shine Balls?

  11. there is no reason to hit venus. its not a rescue cat, launcher, or something ridiculously broken. its a starter deck card. might as well liit gearframe while we are at it. Venus summons 3 vanilla monsters, what happens if you open up with 2 or even 3 of them? not so good. I play agents myself, but people need to stop complaining about it. If Koonami hits every single card that creates potential OTKs then nothing will be "Tier 1". Nobody was complaining about Venus when Formula and Avarice wasnt limited? Nobody was complaining about venus with the old XYZ ruling, people were complaining about Tour guide. Im not saying that the XYZ ruling was "OK" because it wasnt. Once something gets hit there will always be something else to complain about, bottom line.

  12. haha exactly. just unban stein and ban Venus. With synchros and Exceeds running in ur extra deck, with Stein unbanned, Fusions will also be introduced into the extra deck! Let your extra deck explode! :D

  13. @one of the Anonymous: Are you high? Read who wrote the article yo.

    And back in SJC days there were no gorz, Trago, Orange Light, Fader, Veiler, watever.

  14. I'd rather have Hyperion and kristya get hit instead

  15. Yup as mentioned, OTK was very easy to in TCG back then using Cyber-Stein because cards that can stop it didn't exist,

    now if Stein would return, there's still a chance for OTK's especially in round 1, but during round 2 or 3, side decks would most likely solve it,

    Both have their Unique powers ^^

  16. They're not even comparable due to the game being completely different. We had Last Will and no Veiler-type cards back then. Plus we had Storm AND Trunade. Good times lol

  17. SpiceyYanni1 is correct. Venus isn't broken, but I think Cyber-Stein is. Provided you can play any 1-1 card and then you can play Naturia Exterio and shut of your opponent's S/T for the rest of the game.

    But if you get hit by Veiler/Warning you fail really hard.

  18. Na man stein falls in compar tu venus tooo much combos and if you waist a solemn or a vailer on it i have 2 more in my deck and 3 cards to get her to fast

  19. Imo, the only severe advantage which stein has over venus, is the fact that stein can create a monster of any level you want for synchro or exceed summoning, other than that, the cost is definitely worth the 5k, and venus is defenitely getting out of hand with the insane searchability and support it has. WE WANT STEIN!

  20. venus stronger cause if u warning the effects of venus and stein, stein will be a huge pain in the heart of the player wh paid 5K and died to hyperion next turn!

  21. If Warning/Veiler can stop Stein, then why not bring back CED as well? DMoC?
    It doesn't matter if there's counters to Stein, there's counters to everything in this game, and playing around protection and knowing you will be able to resolve the summon of Stein can essentially seal the game. Dropping a Cyber Twin/Cyber End is good, but Naturia Exterio seals the game. Turn 1 Exterio + monster protection means there's no coming back. I also don't find Venus to be as good as Stein because the most common Venus play is summoning a Gachi Gachi Gantetsu. Sure you can go for the OTK, but this only works on an almost clear field. Like your opponent can have like one monster but you have to make sure the attack goes through. Although if they Mirror Force you your grave is full for Kristya. Additionally Venus requires the use of Mystical Shine Ball, three cards that can lead up to dead hands, and United We Stand. In my opinion the most broken aspect of Cyber Stein is Naturia Exterio, an effective lockdown to spells and traps, and your opponent's only out is having a monster that can get rid of it, which isn't necessarilly common, but you have protection for when that happens. Stein is also much more generic than Venus. You have to actually dedicate your deck to Venus in order for it to be successful, when you can tech Stein in most decks, especially ones that play Sangan. Overall Stein has the potential to wreck the format similarly to BLS.

  22. Venus is better because what if you summon stein and pay 5k then you failed and the next turn boss monsters will kill you.LoL, Unlike venus the game is not over yet even if you pay LP and you failed.

  23. Stein is like a game finisher, if u failed u probably loss but Venus is a game controller, u can do multiple things with it. Yeah back in the day we don't have this much protection the only protection we have from clearing back rows and stein is Kuriboh compared to loads of them today. People need to get out from their Posttraumatic stress disorder.

  24. also, effect veiler - when someone veilers ur venus ur like meh, happens. When someone would veiler stein - u would be fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

  25. hey bahamut thingy this isn't the anonymous ur talking bout but i do know who wrote this article u moron
    i don't see the guy who wrote this winning events and shit
    i think ur smoking somethin u unworthy troll
    mind my manners but rudeness can only be fought back by rudeness

  26. 1. If you're a different anonymous then why are you the one fighting back with rudeness when it wasnt you in the first place? Not to mention he wasnt even rude, he just pointed out, you're the one here who's pretty much calling names and being rude

    2. Honestly once in awhile both of us are abit irritated because when we get mixed up since it really shows some people just dont read who wrote an article

    3. I wrote the article and the not winning events shit as you call it is probably a sign that you dont even really read our articles since you can just scroll down 2 articles previously and look on my 'winning events and shit'

    4. And no, we dont smoke anything just for the record

  27. If Exceeds didn't exist, Venus would be an okay card, providing at most fodder for synchro or White Elephant's Gift.
    But now with Exceeds, Venus is almost as powerful as Stein.

    Both have their pros and cons, but I'm on the fence on this one, though.

  28. Good thing there are other decks still winning in Japan despite the population of Agent Angel Decks,

    saw a bunch of different decks in the tournaments results posted at shriek,

    There's still Hope against the power of Venus ^_^

  29. mixed feelings about this DS. Because i feel that your rigt about Venus. It leads to alot more possibilities. I feel that what your saying is going in the right direction, but personally, i would just leave Stein banned and touch Venus in a list or something.

    also, maybe the anon up there got confused because both of you have similar writing styles. However, i cant believe anybody will be able to miss out on seeing the author of any post made by any blog..

  30. cyber stein is a one shot card that doesn't really combo much with anything that has to do with the meta. yes, dropping a very good beater (do not know of their names) early can be really good. dropping your by 5000 means that if you have megamorph, it should be game, unless the damage being dealt was somehow prevented. you either hit or miss with cyber stein. Venus on the other hand combos not just by itself, but with other cards such as kristya and setting up for a hyperion play. Venus itself can help setup the player's grave and also their field. i like venus over stein and i do agree with the one who wrtoe this article. if only fusion heroes could be special summon without being fusion summon. :(

  31. Hi @all:
    In my opinion, the misdesigned card is daigusto phoenix. With the unlimit of united we stand it was soooo clear that It will cause problems/otks.
    I'm a TCG-Player and tested agents a lot without Phoenix (since it's not released in TCG), so I even don't run united we stand. Without Phoenix, Venus don't causes OTKs, but let you stall for 2-3 turns to set up your big plays!

    So my hope lies in a ban of daigusto phoenix, because without venus+shine balls agent angel is dead, seriously...
    Just give it a try, the problem is the stupid XYZ, not venus... :)

    Best Regards

  32. d summon why am i fighting back i'm tired of people saying there so good at the game i wnat people like adam corn etc. to write articles and say they have a repuation but in life the people who brag usually don't have anything at all
    idk i'm anons more than people with names

  33. Down with Agents!! We can beat that deck with proper play and side decks!!

  34. Hmmm, nobody said they were good at the game. You were the one who came in and insulted me directly as the blog post author for no reason at all while all I did was point out how your insult of how I have not been "winning events and shit" was glaringly wrong and uncalled for. Dare say I'm wrong?

  35. u shud build a deck for each and show us how ur right :)

  36. You forgot a few things for Stien. Like how you can use Self destruction Button with it if you cant draw Exodia, how it allows quick synchro summoning, how its a machine and dark both of which have enough support, how well it supports Karakuris and Psychics how it can generate several OTKs, not just the 2 card version.

    For Venus, it takes at least 4 cards, Venus and 3 Shine Balls. If you exceed, fusion or synchro, thats at least 5 more cards, 1 tuner, 1 fusion spell card or 1 exceed monster. Then theres no guarantee the opponent wont stop you with Summon Limit or Light-Imprisoning Mirror.

  37. @Anon in post 32: you obviously don't know just how good DSummon is. He is and has been one of the best players in the OCG for years now. The fact that you mentioned Adam Corn makes me think you know little about the game outside of the US.

    On topic: If someone were to come up to me and simply say "Venus is more Overpowered than Cyber Stein," I would probably not agree with them... until I gave it 2 minutes to sink in, and realize just how crazy Venus truly is (and moreso how lackluster cyber stein is now).

    I set my normal deck aside for a day to play TG Agents at my local, and did very well with it. Howveer every game I lost had 1 thing in common -- I couldn't activate Venus's effect. If venus goes off, it's pretty much over the your opponent, as you suddenly have access to nearly an entire extra deck and have primed yourself to use your boss monsters.

    While I don't like the idea of limiting an otherwise pointless vanilla monster, I feel that limiting venus would only help so much, due to the search and draw power agents have. I think it would be better if Shine ball were to be semi-limited, keeping Venus as a very useful card, but reducing the impact of it slightly. The problem with this is the Phoenix OTK, which would be hindered by this change only minimally, which would suggest a limit of shine ball would be better. At this point Venus becomes nearly useless again... It's really a no-win situation for the sake of balance, short of limiting venus in the presence of tons of monster removal.

  38. Here's something to consider. How many Agent builds that top on Shriek play United We Stand?

    The Venus OTK is far from actually being reliable, and while Stein might be too, Cyber-End pierces through things and can end games in that manner. But a better reason on why Stein is more broken is because of Naturia Exterio.

  39. god dammit. exceed??? i hate when people say that. don't fucking understand why you can just say xyz summon